Game resolution issue

[Dx.]

A while back BFT brought up the vehicles in the game are larger at higher resolutions and should that be considered a cheat.

Normally, as with the desktop, as you increase the resolution, the icons get smaller. However, in Battlezone the higher the resolution the larger the tank, ie: @ 640x480 your tank maybe 3 lines at a given distance while @ 1600x1200 the tank is larger consisting of 9 lines, this makes the target easier to see and hit at a distance.

The directx 9 render exacerbated this issue by allowing a much greater resolution. Now you can have one player @ 640x480 and the remote player @ whatever the new LCD monitors can do, which can go quite high.

I don't know how new games handle this but i can see Bz 1.4 limited this issue by only allowing a small range of resolution to pick from, now it's a much bigger issue.

Any thoughts on this Ken, could anything be done about it?

[Ded10c]

In a way I suppose that's like saying "some people have mice that run at 2000dpi, some people have ones that can't, should we limit mouse sensitivity?". Or, "some people have keyboards that support more keypresses than others - should we limit that?".

If you're going to go down that road, you will be here for a very long time - better hardware will generally produce better results, and it will likely be very difficult to make the game work exactly the same on every machine it is played on.

I do understand where you are coming from, though. If it can be fixed in a way that doesn't limit the game (lowering resolution), it should be.

[TheWall]

Thus HARDWARE mode must be a CHEAT over SOFTWARE mode. That approach to insuring equality to all mandates that ALL be reduced to the lowest common denominator, or the worst possible platform capable of executing the code. Otherwise, everyone with system capability greater than that will be "cheating".

My instincts tell me that one core idea of upgrading graphics capabilities of the game (DX9), was... to upgrade the graphics capabilities to make it more contemporary. Making it more alurring to contemproary persons with contemproary systems.

All computers have access to the same capabilities. Any one running with over 640x480 res. can simply *SQUINT* |-) , or attest they are wearing sunglasses, to insure they are playing fairly.

[EDIT]

HA! Scrappy's 21" monitor really WAS a "hack"! Big Monitors must be a hack, it makes things easier to see.

I've always used 320x240 res., on a old 12" CRT monitor, I couldn't see S##T!

[hitchcockgreen]

Haha

Personally I see the viewing resolution difference as an advantage rather than a cheat.
Just the same way that when BFT plays with a stick against an opponent who uses a mouse. That's an advantage but not a cheat.

I don't think there is any way to regulate peoples hardware or instigate some code change that does this. Its kind of a slippery slope.
One could use the same argument that there should be some setting that increases the performance of a mouse when your opponent has a stick.

On the other hand I was privy to the discussion in question and the issue, to me at least, seems to be more about scaling at higher resolutions and that could be addressed by Ken maybe.

[Dx.]

An object should be more detailed at higher resolutions, not become a bigger target, which is quite clearly happening. It's like a higher resolution zooms in on the object with no loss of aiming percision.

Maybe the graphics code needs to check the objects scale.

[hitchcockgreen]

Yeah that's why I assume it's a scaling issue more than anything else. The object seems to get larger, but not clearer.

[FirBirGir]

This seems like a small advantage though, since there is a range limitation to weapons. Does this affect sniping? I could see that being a much larger advantage.

I agree that it sounds like a scaling issue but I'm not sure it's worth a lot of work to correct. I guess I will have to see it in the game to gauge the difference.

Eddy

[Dx.]

I compared it by screen shots taken of the side of a grizzly at i think 150 meters in 640x480 and 1600x1200, the tank looks much more clear and goes from 3 lines to 9 lines IIRC. The effect being it's much easier to aim at the tank and snipe the cockpit of the tank.

Maybe if the graphics code is too hard to deal with an altn. can been done, like getting the details from the remote user via the game shell etc.. Similar to Bz2.

[FirBirGir]

I think 1024x768 would be a more realistic comparison, using 640x480 is a worst case scenario. You can probably see a difference between 640x480 and 1024x768 too.

I still need to see it in game to gauge the difference and any potential advantage it provides.

Eddy

[Blunt Force Trauma]

Here's the two screens.

The 640x480 has been expanded to match the same pixel size as the 1900x1200 with close to the exact same angular width.

From what I recall, this originally started with the discussion that having a higher visual distance was an advantage. And my contention was higher resolution capability was also a distinct advantage.

You can see that identifying a soldier's shape, to then snipe, would be far easier at higher res.

[{911}scrapmkr]

Thus HARDWARE mode must be a CHEAT over SOFTWARE mode. That approach to insuring equality to all mandates that ALL be reduced to the lowest common denominator, or the worst possible platform capable of executing the code. Otherwise, everyone with system capability greater than that will be "cheating".

My instincts tell me that one core idea of upgrading graphics capabilities of the game (DX9), was... to upgrade the graphics capabilities to make it more contemporary. Making it more alurring to contemproary persons with contemproary systems.

All computers have access to the same capabilities. Any one running with over 640x480 res. can simply *SQUINT* |-) , or attest they are wearing sunglasses, to insure they are playing fairly.

[EDIT]

HA! Scrappy's 21" monitor really WAS a "hack"! Big Monitors must be a hack, it makes things easier to see.

I've always used 320x240 res., on a old 12" CRT monitor, I couldn't see S##T!

LOL, I "hacked" my way to terrible DM skills. ya buddy That goof PO was so damn funny on the acti board having such a snit over my 21" monitor.

happy bday wally

[SnakeEye]

In a way I suppose that's like saying "some people have mice that run at 2000dpi, some people have ones that can't, should we limit mouse sensitivity?". Or, "some people have keyboards that support more keypresses than others - should we limit that?".

If you're going to go down that road, you will be here for a very long time - better hardware will generally produce better results, and it will likely be very difficult to make the game work exactly the same on every machine it is played on.

I do understand where you are coming from, though. If it can be fixed in a way that doesn't limit the game (lowering resolution), it should be.

the consoles are alot more fair in this matter

[FirBirGir]

True, because there is no diversity or cross compatibility. Just think what it would be like if XBox, Wii, PS3, XBox 360 and PCs could all play together on the same network. It would be just like PC gaming today

Eddy

[hitchcockgreen]

Yeah that'd be great if they'd do that, but they never will.
I know there are even games where you can download them for free and then just buy your online time for them...however that time can't be split between the console version and the PC version.

Console companies need to realize that it would likely increase their profits if there was more sharing like that.

[Ded10c]

Steam supports PS3 now, so I suppose things are getting there. However, I find the faster response times on PC may cause some difficulty - wouldn't want to be on a PS3 against a PC opponent.

[hitchcockgreen]

Very true.
I know the PS3 only has about 256MB of RAM, but I'm not sure what it's GPU cababilities are like.

[Ded10c]

Apparently they're pretty good.


On the topic of hardware making your game better, it's a shame I'm a Logitech guy, or I'd have one of these already...

[hitchcockgreen]

I assume that they're very good since PS3 modders/hackers want to unlock it's capabilities.

LOL Jesus! It's the rebirth of the Nintendo Power Glove!