A Hard Time (split from "How to use Debug Symbols")

[hitchcockgreen]

Thanks, Ken. Was wondering how to do that. Hadn't looked into it before.

Spock & Crew still giving you a hard time?

[Ultraken]

Nope. Things settled down about a week ago though there's still less traffic than before.

[Ultraken]

Just to clarify, "giving me a hard time" implies that they were being unreasonable.

While poking fun at Spock and other BZ1.net forum members seems to be a popular sport with a long history, I can say without exaggeration that they have contributed quite a lot to 1.5. Dx and Tug have contributed many solid changes over the years and I have always gotten solid support from BZU and BZC, but I simply can't ignore the sheer depth of support from BZ1.net. 1.5 wouldn't have included nearly as many fixes and improvements without their bug reports and testing efforts.

When I go off behind their backs and make statements here and on Nathan's forum that seem antagonistic and express little concern with BZE including updates from 1.5 or the BZC version of 1.4 locking the server list in code, I can understand them questioning that level of support. I personally think 1.5 can stand on its own merits and don't regard BZE or the BZC 1.4 as rivals, which is why I haven't been overly bothered about it, but others disagreed and made their views clear. I don't begrudge them that.

[Ultraken]

If the tables were turned and I made statements that seemed antagonistic towards Dx on other forums while being conciliatory here, I would fully expect him to say something about it even if it were unintentional. Spock has just as much right to call me out on that kind of hypocrisy as anyone else.

[hitchcockgreen]

I only saw a fraction of the conversation, including the call to boycott 1.5, which is why I asked. I kind of thought it unreasonable to call for a boycott for the reasons that Dx had involvement in contributions or that he, in return, could use 1.5 code fixes. It just seemed to come out of nowhere considering he and Tug had been doing so from the start and it wasn't exactly a big secret.

I wouldn't say that "poking fun" at a few members is a popular sport. It does have a long history and there are some deep grudges, to be sure. It's been said before but I'll say it again; no one here cares which version anyone plays or even where they play, really. It's just good to have anyone playing this game at all. Unfortunately not everyone thinks this way, and so Spock might give you an ultimatum for belonging to more than just his website or even be banned outright. It's akin to shooting yourself in the foot when you're trying to retain players in a shrinking community. But that's his choice, I suppose.

I think we all realize that bz1 members have done the majority of the testing and that's fine. It's something Spock had wanted for some time. As I'm sure you know, prior to your involvement he sought Dx' help in creating a fixed version. However, he kept burning his bridges there. Your involvement is different because you are, in a way, outside of that microcosm of history in BZ. Basically neutral.

And you're right, BZE and 1.5 aren't in competition. BZE is an alternative, not a replacement. This is why we have BZ1.4 and BZE on the same session, but not the same session as the stock game. We can be separate from Spock and his community and drastically reduce the amount of needless harassment we'd face, and we can unite players from both versions in the same lobby.

And as for "going off" behind people's backs....well everyone needs to vent once in a while.

[FirBirGir]

There's no doubt that hardcore BZ1 players are at bz1.net. It's the desire to be the ONLY BZ1 site and server that is confusing and causes a lot of problems in the community. Baconboy and plenty of others are banned from BZ1.net for posting here or playing BZE. Bullying players is not good behavior.

I'm sure you have noticed the numerous colorful names Spock has for this site and it's members, too. Certainly no shortage of name calling (do a search for Nazi some time and see what you find on his site).

Eddy

[Ultraken]

I was never given an ultimatum that I know of, and I didn't know it was an actual boycott until it ended. I just thought people didn't feel like posting in my little sandbox for a while.

[hitchcockgreen]

No, you wouldn't have been given an ultimatum. That's been other users' experience. Like I said, you live in a bubble outside the BZ microcosm.

[Blunt Force Trauma]

It may be perfectly reasonable for Ultraken to not understand the depths he's delving when he integrates with the flocktum since his playing on the servers of the past has been little to non-existent.

Does it really matter if Ultraken either ignores or does not see the difference between play testing and bad sportsmanship and the sheer corrosiveness of spocks's need to squelch everyone who isn't in his belief world?

Does it really matter if the anecdotal statements from many. . .at different forums. . . of spock's whacky history smack him in face at every turn? Has he not seen the blatant immaturity at spock's forum such as putting names under the avatars of people who he has passed some kind of fruity judgment?

Even the promise of a 'final release' will be but a small dozen or so players for a 2 week blip, then back to the 16 or so across 1.4, 1.5 and BZE.

So. . .I say at this point in the extreme waning existence of the BZ universe, it really doesn't matter one way or another.

[hitchcockgreen]

Let's hear it for BFT: motivational speaker!

Seriously though, it's an accurate assessment. Ken would continue his work despite what any forum said.
The game will be fixed, but here we are 13 years later. won't be too many people left to play it. not to say that the fix isn't welcome or appreciated, Ken.

[Ultraken]

"My name is Super Programmer Ken Miller:
Look upon my works, ye players, and Dare to Have It All!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

...

Dang, now I'm all sad.

[FirBirGir]

Only in a BZ forum would you find 19th century poetry in reference to a game

It's sad to see the prime years pass, but BZ isn't dead yet. For some of us, it'll be around for a long time yet (may only be 2-3 of us though!)

Eddy

[Blunt Force Trauma]

It's sad to see the prime years pass, but BZ isn't dead yet. For some of us, it'll be around for a long time yet (may only be 2-3 of us though!)
Eddy

I think if there remains a server and forum with some kind of mature management, there will always be 10-20 or so that use the server if only occasionally. . .at least for 2 or more years.

Even if that drops away and there's only a server funded and supported by immature fanaticism, there will still be a handful.

[hitchcockgreen]

As long as Eddy runs his own business, I think we can rely on this site and the 911 servers to be around.