American Debt

[hitchcockgreen]

Puts it in perspective, doesn't it?

http://www.wtfnoway.com/

[FirBirGir]

It does. I'm going to a corner and cry now...

[Dx.]

That's not right, it's over 200 Trillion.

[FirBirGir]

200 Trillion is so big, we ran out of Internet trying to show it.

[Dx.]

Ofc, how much has been printed and how much is just numbers on computers...

[hitchcockgreen]

I'm thinking it's mostly magical numbers and not a lot of paper.

By contrast, Canada's federal debt is supposedly around $563 billion. And we're running a deficit when ten years ago (different political party in power) we had budget surpluses for several years straight.

Thanks, Conservative government.

[FirBirGir]

Was the in the late '90s? There were a couple of bubbles going that most governments were riding. When they popped, revenue went in the toilet and debt skyrocketed.

You're correct, it's not really paper money though we are printing a lot of it. Debt is in the form of liability, we owe ourselves and foreign investors most of the debt in the form of bonds.

Eddy

[hitchcockgreen]

All throughout the 90s and late 80s.

The current government has managed to break records on spending on public opinion polls while cutting back essentials. Also they really seem to make us more American than anything else which, no offense, I deeply resent.

[FirBirGir]

Heh, understood. I wouldn't want to be Canadian-like so I know what you mean.

Wikipedia has a write up on Canadian National Debt at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_public_debt

Your population is roughly 33M and your debt is projected at $522,000M so your per capita debt is about $15K per person.

The US population is 307M and our current debt at $14,342,844M so our per capita debt is about $47K per person.

You're not nearly as bad off as we are but you're 1/10th the size population wise so it can be a little more volatile for you.

Canadian debt growth and decline patterns are definitely different than the US. The article shows significant growth in debt peaking in 1997 then bottomed out in 2008/2009. It's on its way back to a new peak in the next 5 years if something doesn't change.

Eddy

[Blunt Force Trauma]

I still stick to my analogy of a beach full people enjoying the day when the tide recedes hundreds of meters. Everyone knows what that means, and after a few minutes there are a few precursor and annoying waves that come in and ruin the day for a few picnicking and laying too close to the water, but the remaining crowd, a bit higher on the beach remain oblivious and indignant, thinking they have time to enjoy the rest of the day.

2014-15 is when the wave arrives for the US with the impact of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA).

This isn't your grandad's or father's debt. This is at a scale that would have been laughed at in 1985 as too ridiculous and inconceivable to be considered serious. At a scale too frightening to think about in 2000.

But. . . here we are at 14.3T.

[hitchcockgreen]

I still stick to my analogy of a beach full people enjoying the day when the tide recedes hundreds of meters. Everyone knows what that means

Yeah, its going to start to stink.

[Sno]

REVOLUTTIONNNNNNNN!!!!

[Blunt Force Trauma]

Well, the downgrade is but another small precursor to the monster coming.

[Dx.]

What has the AA+ rating done to interest rates?

[Sno]

Is the AA+ actually official? After it was announced, people started pointing fingers and others started saying the AA+ was done in aerror (http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n256512).

I don't know what this will do or why this one agency has the power to declare our "rating." I'd like to know if this will affect international trade...such as imposing ridiculous tariffs and making the cost of gasoline skyrocket.

[hitchcockgreen]

What I don't understand is if an nation just says "oh we raised our debt ceiling" that somehow fixes things. Like you can just arbitrarily change your credit score by changing the rates. That'd be like if I told the bank that it's ok, I changed my debt ceiling so my credit is better now - lower my mortgage rates. Huh?

America's 'credit rating' has been down for a while. China is telling you to get your s**t together 'cause you owe them a lot.

Is the AA+ actually official? After it was announced, people started pointing fingers and others started saying the AA+ was done in aerror

The 'error' was a calculation of 2 Trillion. Given the national debt of the U.S. I'd say that's practically negligible.

By the by....anyone seen Inside Job?

[Sno]

Haven't seen it, but I've been hearing about it and some other movie ever since this credit rating paranoia was injected into our veins. I don't claim one of the major political parties (I'm Libertarian), but I think the US Democrats are being dooooche bags about this. Yea, go ahead and raise the ceiling MORE and NOT cut back on useless BS and stuff that isn't working. Everyone keeps shouting it's the war, but they don't realize how much money is missing, wasted, and abused by the government.


People will keep yelling at who's fault it is, when both sides are equally at fault. I'm nowhere near the liberal ideology, so I think they're logic is skewed beyond recovery to begin with. I think the more we "adapt" to other cultures instead of sticking to our foundations, the more idiotic and tangled our government becomes trying to please everyone.

If it gets bad enough, I was planning on going to Europe or Canada. But I'll probably have to invest in more winter-ish clothes =)

[hitchcockgreen]

You should see it.
I'm about halfway through. Started watching it last night.

Yes, wars cost a lot of money (I think the Iraq war is up to about 600 billion total now?) but compared to the national debt, it's a drop in the bucket.

Deregulation kicked it all off, it seems, and it's been a downward spiral ever since.

Parts of Europe you'd need some winter-ish clothes, and most of Canada. But not really the west coast if you go there. Their winters are pretty mild. Vancouver/Victoria might get snow one day a year and it's usually gone after 8 hours. Typically the temperatures average out to 9C in the winter there. Except it's not really "winter" but more of a rainy season.

[Sno]

Bah, I'll also have to learn the metric system again...I'll have to think about this

[hitchcockgreen]

lol

C'mon America, you and those two other backwater countries are the only ones in the world not using the metric system.