Faster than Light Travel

[hitchcockgreen]

I'm assuming at least some of you (I'm looking at you, BFT) have heard about this?

http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.4897

I'll remain skeptical, but can you imagine if it's verified and stands to peer scrutiny?!?!

[FirBirGir]

The particle didn't travel faster than light, it traveled forward in time...

[Blunt Force Trauma]

Yes I saw that.

It's based on a conglomeration of statistical events taken over a period of a few years.

I imagine it will be concluded someone didn't factor in 42.

[hitchcockgreen]

Yeah I'm skeptical. I think it's somewhat likely that someone missed something really obvious, but still...

[BZROM]

I just noticed this topic.
I wished i'd been paying attention, but it's getting harder to pay for anything theses days.
I had posted this link in BZ3:http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-cer ... ticle.html
I don't know what the fuss is all about, We already know that:
Earth is actually a supercomputer commissioned and paid for by a race of "hyper-intelligent," "pan-dimensional" beings. These creatures had earlier built a supercomputer called Deep Thought to calculate the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything.

[BZROM]

why-neutrinos-might-wimp-out

[hitchcockgreen]

And then this happened:

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/11/ne ... g+Posts%29

[BZROM]

It's important to note that;

Concerns about the experiment’s use of the Global Positioning System to synchronize clocks at each end of the neutrino beam are unlikely to be as easily allayed, The use of GPS is novel in the field of high energy and particle physics and the same system was used for both the original experiment and the new run. Hagner also adds that she’d like to see the time measurement checked using another part of the detector, to increase confidence further.

For most physicists outside the collaboration, however, the key test will be replication by an independent experiment. The one best placed to independently confirm or refute OPERA’s result is MINOS (the Main Injector Neutrino Oscillation Search) at Fermilab in Batavia, Illinois. In response to the latest OPERA result, MINOS issued a statement saying it is upgrading its timing system to match OPERA's precision and might have preliminary results obtained using the existing system that are relevant to assessing OPERA's results as soon as early 2012.

[hitchcockgreen]

Yes, even when the 'discovery' was first announced I was extremely skeptical (still am) and pointed out the issue of using GPS on other forums.
What I was surprised with was that the second group produced the same results at all, when initial observations they made pointed to the opposite conclusion.

It sounds as though even they are still skeptical (very good thing) and that they admit further testing is needed.

Looks like the jury will be out on this one for a while yet.

[Blunt Force Trauma]

This is actually quite an uproar in the physics community for reasons other than the possibility of crumbling one of the foundations of modern physics.

There may be a bit of disingenuous furor at the risk of professional disgrace coming from those able to 'easily' jump on the band wagon to confirm the 'discovery'.

If a research group has the funding and access to construct a verification experiment to the claim, they could possibly win either way. If for example, they conduct their process and procedure and find c to be true, they've fattened their resume and release another paper. . . all this is forgotten by the physics community a few months later. Several graduate level individuals may even root out extraneous material to write their dissertation.

However. . .if they confirm the FTL phenomenon, they will go down in the annals of science as part of the exclusive community who found the chink in Einstein's greatest discovery. Their funding will be close to infinite for further investigation.

But the mine field ahead is . . . if they confirm with confidence. . .and later an error is found to be an "obvious" hypothesis misunderstanding, systems glitch, process or procedural error, they could be shamed on a level not dissimilar to Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons.

[hitchcockgreen]

Yup. And I think that's why they're being cautious - not grandstanding and making outrageous claims.

Better for science and better for their careers.

[BZROM]

Looks like we'll all have to wait to be elucidated.

[BZROM]

Now, A Second Italian Study Rejects Faster-Than-Light Neutrino Claim
http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl ... aim?cmp=tw
Theses guys should just stop making claims until they finally know for sure.

[hitchcockgreen]

They weren't so much as making claims as reporting findings and inviting the rest of the scientific community to verify or debunk, which is normal procedure.

Uplink from the tundra

[BZROM]

They weren't so much as making claims as reporting findings and inviting the rest of the scientific community to verify or debunk, which is normal procedure.

Uplink from the tundra

Yeah i understand this....but this whole episodic topic is just seems unprofessional.
& They should be able to do this without a press release. It's making them look like idiots.

[hitchcockgreen]

There are plenty of press releases about plenty of science stories.... this one is automatically a headline grabber when mainstream press can put a title like "Einstein's theories smashed" or what have you on them.

For instance, how much press did the Europa discovery get?

[BZROM]

Point taken, hence..
"Headline Grabbers" are the whole problem.

[BZROM]

Point taken, hence..
"Headline Grabbers" are the whole problem.

Ahem, here we go again...
Faster-Than-Light Neutrinos? New Test Confirms Accuracy of Experiment's Initial Measurement in Flight Time of Neutrinos
Excuse me...Excuse me,Mr. scientist.. I'd like to get off of this merry-go-round...now

[hitchcockgreen]

So far what we've established is that we can reproduce the results sometimes, but not all the time.
Therefore there is an inaccuracy with the measurement tools (GPS satellites).

The only way I can see this being resolved is to use a more precise and static measuring tool than GPS.

[Ded10c]

sometimes, but not all the time.

Not the only place we have seen this.