'Occupy' Protests

[hitchcockgreen]

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wal ... 11-10?op=1

[Blunt Force Trauma]

A lengthy list of interesting ripples that are preceding the 'big one'.
Not being partisan, just facts.


- 48.5% of all Americans live in a household that receives some form of government benefits.

- During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office.

- Since Barack Obama was sworn in, the share of the national debt per household has increased by $35,835.

- The U.S. national debt has been increasing by an average of more than 4 billion dollars per day since the beginning of the Obama administration.

- State and local government debt has reached an all-time high of 22 percent of U.S. GDP.

- U.S. households are now receiving more income from the U.S. government than they are paying to the government in taxes.



- The cost of college tuition in the United States has gone up by over 900 percent since 1978. Average yearly tuition at U.S. private universities is now up to $27,293.

- The United States has had a negative trade balance every single year since 1976.



- Today, the United States spends more than 4 dollars on goods and services from China for every one dollar that China spends on goods and services from the United States.

- The United States has lost 32% of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.

- The Social Security system paid out more in benefits than it received in payroll taxes in 2010.

- The U.S. government now says that the Medicare trust fund will run out five years faster than they were projecting just last year.

- The 50 U.S. state governments are collectively 3.2 trillion dollars short of what they need to meet their pension obligations.

- The number of Americans on food stamps has increased 74% since 2007.

- One-third of the entire population of the state of Alabama is now on food stamps.

- According to a recent report from the AFL-CIO, the average CEO made 343 times more money than the average American did last year.

- The Federal Reserve made $16.1 trillion in secret loans during the last financial crisis.

[hitchcockgreen]

The stats I saw reported a CEO - to - worker pay ratio of 475:1 in the United States....waaaaaay above anywhere else in the world.

I understand the complaining about student loans. You go into college/university hoping that the education will get you a good job...but now (in the context of the U.S.) that isn't so much the case.

If more people knew this before going to college, they might have second thoughts...are set loftier goals and seek employment outside of the country, but that shouldn't have to be the viable option.

I had also read that national debt skyrocketed 189% when Reagan was in office, which was the highest jump ever in American debt. I wish I could find the source now (so much of this info is coming to light given recent events/conditions and I should really make more of an effort to bookmark ). I don't know if that's exactly true or not, just saying I read it.
I do know that Reagan wasn't fond of the Federal Reserve, yet he did play a big role in the slippery slope of deregulation.
But of course, this all starts way back before him, it's just been growing exponentially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 1B5hn3Tnog

[hitchcockgreen]

The latest message:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... zbTlY1uOJk

[Blunt Force Trauma]

National economics have SO many variables, I really have no idea how I would direct a national movement to 'break' the capitalistic system, then rebuild it as a more socialistically fair system, but retain the vibrancy and inventiveness of capitalism.

Kind of reminds me of Asimov's 'Foundation Series'

[hitchcockgreen]

The problem isn't so much capitalism but uncontrolled capitalism.

Exponential and unlimited growth with finite markets and resources. The coin has to drop sooner or later.

[Dx.]

The problem isn't so much capitalism but uncontrolled capitalism.

There used tobe excess profits laws, now the prices are as high as the market will pay. This means instead of one earning enough for the family, it takes the income of two.

[FirBirGir]

The problem with student loans goes back to the parents of the students. You would think that adults working and living in today's economic world would give some guidance to their kids about student loans. Even though the cost of an education has skyrocketed, you shouldn't go to a school that costs $25K a year when you can get the same degree for a lot less. This is similar to folks buying a house beyond their means on the hope they will make more in the future and eventually be able to afford to keep it. That's very risky as is borrowing tens of thousands of dollars with no real guarantee the investment will pay off.

Is there a study out there of which degrees result in real jobs? Like Art Majors may not find a job but Business Majors do? When the job market is soft, I'm sure some majors are less appealing to employers than others.

On the national debt, the US has always had one from the beginning but the rate of growth over the past 5-6 years is unbelievable. Most of it was two things - bailouts and stimulus packages. Would we really be that much worse off if we hadn't bailed out banks and tried to prop up the economy with a unsustainable influx of cash? This is a case where throwing money at the problem definitely was not going to fix it. The economy is way to large and slow to change for band-aid fixes and most elected officials don't want to risk their reelection odds by talking about the real problems and true fixes.

Eddy

[hitchcockgreen]

Is there a study out there of which degrees result in real jobs? Like Art Majors may not find a job but Business Majors do? When the job market is soft, I'm sure some majors are less appealing to employers than others.

There might be. Honestly, I think the only way you can get paid with an Arts degree these days (depending on which arts) is to create your own job. Of course, that will likely hinge on having two degrees as well (business degree would help, I suppose, or a great deal of common sense).
I think primarily all you can really end up doing with an arts degree these days is teach arts. Which isn't a bad thing, but you should damn well know that going into it.
How many famous writers, for example, have Bachelor degrees in English Literature?

...bailouts and stimulus packages. Would we really be that much worse off if we hadn't bailed out banks and tried to prop up the economy with a unsustainable influx of cash?

Absolutely. And as it's coming to light, they didn't need those bailouts at all (particularly the banks).
Meanwhile, they were given money for free, and then they lent back with high interest rates. Talk about a screwover.

[hitchcockgreen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FZrNSa3b8g

[Sno]

That was a pretty good rant, that man has some brains!

Here's a snippet of the cost of US college degree's:

http://www.thebestcolleges.org/higher_education_bubble/

Art degree's...hmmm. That is a highly competitive field and is based solely on your artistic abilities that some people are just naturally gifted with. Obviously, technical degree's like Computer Science are always undergoing change and are difficult to get (I know many people at my school who are considering an "easier" major), but the salary will pay off any student loan debt in about 6-9 months.

[Sno]

I have noticed a trend with the media coverage over the protests. Conservative networks label it a "pathetic liberal movement" while liberal networks don't show the Conservative protestors. Don't these fools realize that all ideologies are there? This is a bit hysterical, and it gets better. I see that Kanye West has dipped into the protests. Isn't that kind of...a double negative? Especially when he fly's back to his mansion and sips on ~$500 champagne bottles?


Oh yea, did you know these protests have spanned over to over 1,000 countries?
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/huh-diane-sa ... countries/

[FirBirGir]

It's funny when you see the protestors wearing $50 tee shirts and texting on their $500 iPhones

[hitchcockgreen]

I have noticed a trend with the media coverage over the protests. Conservative networks label it a "pathetic liberal movement" while liberal networks don't show the Conservative protestors. Don't these fools realize that all ideologies are there? This is a bit hysterical, and it gets better. I see that Kanye West has dipped into the protests. Isn't that kind of...a double negative? Especially when he fly's back to his mansion and sips on ~$500 champagne bottles?


Oh yea, did you know these protests have spanned over to over 1,000 countries?
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/huh-diane-sa ... countries/

All the mainstream media is getting it wrong, or spinning it to their liking. Just as some politicians are throwing support at it trying to get the votes.
"over a thousand countries"
Wow.

It's funny when you see the protestors wearing $50 tee shirts and texting on their $500 iPhones

There is the usual smattering of douchebags there, to be sure. The ones (I saw one such video today) that simply want someone to pay their student loans - f*** that, son.
But the general complaint, as I've stated before, is not of corporations or capitalism, itself, but of the corrupt mix of politics and finance industries, lack of any real law enforcement when it comes to white collar crimes (or even the investigation of said crimes), etc, etc.
That being said, any such large movement like this will attract all sorts of different groups, and when mainstream media want to spin it their way, they only have to seek out one member of one of the groups who will do the job best for them.

[Sno]

But the general complaint, as I've stated before, is not of corporations or capitalism, itself, but of the corrupt mix of politics and finance industries, lack of any real law enforcement when it comes to white collar crimes (or even the investigation of said crimes), etc, etc.

Bingo.

I don't see why I, or anyone else would be responsible for paying back someone's student loans. There are tons of grants, scholarships and low-interest routes to obtain a college education these days. It's your own fault if you rack up an enormous debt and obtaining a degree in underwater basket weaving.

Starting in US high schools, I know there is a test that takes your interests and abilities and provides you with what career fields you should look into. I think my result was Systems Analyst when I took the test in 9th grade, and that is about 75% accurate to what I'm majoring in. It gave me a pretty good idea of what career field I needed to look into. I've seen too many college kids pick a major at random "just to try it out" without actually knowing what's involved (internship, anyone?). Then they suddenly realize they hate it and change majors. Like I used to be told, test the $%^*&#%^* water temperature before you dive into the pool!

[hitchcockgreen]

Exactly. Lots of kids go on to "try things out" in college. Sometimes at the urging of their parents (read: get the f*** out of my house) and sometimes because they're clueless.
Unfortunately these kinds of tests aren't universal. I'm also not sure that every public school would give those tests. And to be honest, I probably wouldn't have taken one when I was in high school simply out of spite.

What I do know is that the American public school system is rated pretty damned low these days, so I can't blame the kids 100% for not being prepared for college.

[Sno]

Ohhh yea, the education system. My mother has a Masters degree and she teaches at an elementary school: It amazes me how pathetic things are. She has told me many times she cannot wait to retire. I visited a few of her classes...I thought she was a hard mother, she is 5x harder as a teacher On the bright side, her students will actually go into the next grade knowing something.


Ron Paul pwning Hermain Cain over auditing the Fed: $16 TRILLION unaccounted for, just from a partial audit!? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 5tUdkj80cA


That wise protestor was interviewed and he clarified more of what he was shouting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... iadtykk8nE

[FirBirGir]

He is at least pointing the finger in the right direction and if we fix the problem (the politicians) that he is describing, it addresses all sources of corruption and undo influence; not just corporation, but all special interests groups. Corporations aren't the only ones lobbying Congress. They're not even the ones with the most money to spend on members of Congress, they have more restrictions than PACs do.

To me, two things will make the US stronger and cleaner - term limits for all elected positions and campaign reform. Why aren't the protestors calling for these?

Eddy

[Blunt Force Trauma]

I think term limits would only disrupt the corruption mechanics for one term, if that. As I'm sure you're aware, most politicians are supported by unseen factions and constantly have their puppet strings pulled. It would only take one term, maybe two, for corporate interest to set up a candidate inheritance to continue the policies wanted.

And I agree about many in the crowd appear to be well-to-do kids whining the silver spoon fell off the baby tray. I see a crap load of really nice accessories and clothes. As FirBbir said, using their iPhones (which by the way, have about the most expensive monthly service packages in the market) tweeting and Youtubing.

And if all the protestors were as well spoken and apparently knowledgeable of the economy as that 'Captmidnight', the politicians might be a bit more uneasy.

[hitchcockgreen]