Almost forgot...

[hitchcockgreen]

200th anniversary of the war of 1812 today (well the start of the war anyway).

Realize its probably a sore spot to Americans but for obvious reasons it's a point of pride up here. After all, it was the first war America lost (one of the few I suppose).

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[FirBirGir]

Not really...

Code: Select all

In recent decades the view of the majority of historians has been that the war ended in stalemate, with the Treaty of Ghent closing a war that had become militarily inconclusive. Neither side wanted to continue fighting since the main causes had disappeared and since there were no large lost territories for one side or the other to reclaim by force. Insofar as they see the war's untriumphant resolution as allowing two centuries of peaceful and mutually beneficial intercourse between the U.S., Britain and Canada, these historians often conclude that all three nations were the "real winners" of the War of 1812. These writers often add that the war could have been avoided in the first place by better diplomacy. It is seen as a mistake for everyone concerned because it was badly planned and marked by multiple fiascoes and failures on both sides, as shown especially by the repeated American failure to seize parts of Canada, and the failed British invasions of New Orleans and upstate New York.[

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_181 ... or_the_war

[hitchcockgreen]

That sounds like a pretty feel-good ending.
Strategically, I'd say the U.S. lost as it failed its primary objectives (forcibly annex BNA and "liberate" its residents) and force Britain out of North America. And it failed to do so despite initially having much greater numbers.

I think one of the big initial surprises for the U.S. was that BNA residents didn't want to be "liberated."

Territory was won and given back so that wasn't much of a gain either way.
Previous to the war the U.S. could not use the St. Lawrence seaway for commercial fishing. They won that but lost on having warships in the great lakes.

The war of 1812 is generally seen as a defining moment in history as it set in motion events that lead to Canada's independence 20 years plus change later on.

Either way, seems you won in the long run. American lobby groups have successfully installed a puppet PM into office who is selling off the country to American interests wholesale.

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[hitchcockgreen]

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/b ... ian-admits

[FirBirGir]

You can find many differing opinions on the war. The war was actually with the British Empire not with Canada by itself. Being a British colony and next door, Canada was both the target of acquisition and a means to inflict damage onto the British. I think it's relevant that the Revolutionary war was only 30-some years in the past at that time.

Many scholars admit it was the Indians that lost the most in that war (and pretty much everything after that too).

Eddy

[hitchcockgreen]

Yes, opinion as to who won, for example, seems to be different depending on what nation you talk to.

But I think my point about objectives stands.

And Canada didn't even exist, as such, at that point. It was still British North America.
Independence didn't come until 1837.

I think the natives lost long before that war... but after too. Perhaps more profoundly after.

[Sno]

I had to stop reading that link after I read this line from the historian-

ultimately, Canada and Canadians won the War of 1812.

Wait, what? Was Canada composed of different nations under one roof and name? Did Canada as a whole AND Canadians win, or was it Canada and Oompa Loompas?

Thanks Mr. Historian, I had no idea that CANADIANS are in CANADA, BRAZILIANS are located in BRAZIL, and the NORWEGIANS are in NORWAY.




Sorry, my mother is an English professor

[hitchcockgreen]

lol well...he is an American historian...so he has to assume people can't make that kind of connection.

[hitchcockgreen]

Also... wtf?

The board thinks *a*s*s*u*m*e* is a dirty word lol.

[hitchcockgreen]

Actually, the funniest thing about this historian's statements is about Canada at all. Canada didn't even exist as such until 1837.
Still "British North America" at that point.

[Sno]

Therefore his statements are loosely accurate? Whatever, that first line I mentioned was just the wheel falling off the unicycle for me. Not a good way to start a history lesson.
Didn't you know, Green? We can make a lot of cool/useful shiznit -- granted ... but the words that come out of our mouth/pen are questionable.




Eh, every rose has its thorn.

[hitchcockgreen]

Canada as a nation and Canadians as a people was his point. And probably just put into modern context I presume.

After all, not like all the people were replaced when the place was renamed.

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[Blunt Force Trauma]

LOL

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... e_us_.html

[hitchcockgreen]

Not surprising.
With an increasingly large aging population a chunk of those number are Snowbirds.
The others find temporary work or go to school in the states (a friend of mine from high school for example, went to John Hopkins).

Canada has always had a very healthy R&D sector. What we don't seem to have, apparently, is the know how to market those inventions and innovations. It ends up going south.

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[Sno]

We are heavy investors in toilets that can support the weight of the rising numbers of fatties, so we'll support anything that will make us lazier

[hitchcockgreen]

Flushing lazy-boy? (With beer fridge and extendable straw built in!)

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[Dx.]

Also... wtf?

The board thinks *a*s*s*u*m*e* is a dirty word lol.

Assume is Sooo dirty, it's unspeakable.

[hitchcockgreen]

You just said it!
Four week ban!

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[Dx.]

You just said it!
Four week ban!

Thanks Spock, may i have another.